Questioning The Tough Stuff or, Finding God in the Shack
a ‘connect’ small group study in August

scroll done to see more complete study notes

• Does God forgive everyone? Will there be child abusers and other ‘bad people’ in heaven? I’m not God, so how am I supposed to forgive like God? August 4
2 Peter 3:9; 2 Corinthians 5:17 -6:2; Matthew 18:21-35;


• Is God really a family of three? How can we ‘get our heads around’ the complex mystery of the Trinity? August 11
Philippians 2:5-11; John 1:1-18; Hebrews 1:1-3

• Where is God in senseless, innocent suffering? Does God even care? Doesn’t he have any power to prevent tragedy? August 18
Romans 8:28, 35-39; 2 Corinthians 6:3-10, 11:16-12:10;

• How do we resolve the age-long tension in the ongoing battle between good and evil? How am I supposed to respond? Where is the church in all of this?What kind of help can be offered?
August 25 Romans 12:9-21; Hebrews 10:23-25; Romans 1:18-32

Roger Olson writes about The Shack:

Everyone who has ever felt a “Great Sadness”, or knows someone who has, can relate to The Shack: – the terrible burden of grief that accompanies and follows a devastating loss. People often ask “Where is God?”, “Where was God?”
The book does not assault the reader with heavy theological jargon; it does not even quote the Bible. The reader is sweetly seduced into some profound theological thinking. The point of it all is that God is worthy of trust, and we shouldn’t judge God.
p. 16, 17 = “I don’t mean that God plans evil or suffering. Rather God knows why he allows terrible things to happen and he is not absent from us when they happen. But God can bring good out of them even though the events themselves are not good. … The author surely wrote it with the hope that through it God would heal wounds of distrust and bring some readers back to himself".

Meetings will be at the First Presbyterian Manse, 12 Church Street, Brockville, (Doug & Yvonne Johns 613-345-7105) Wednesdays at 7 pm August 4,11,18,25.

Each meeting will ‘stand on its own’ and the study/discussion will not presuppose a prior reading of THE SHACK. However if you did read the book you will have a specific framework to assist you in thinking through these tough questions.


The Shack, William P. Young, Wind Blown Media, 2007
Finding God in the Shack, Roger E. Olson, Inter Varsity Press, 2009




STUDY NOTES



August 04 2010
2 Peter 3:9; 2 Corinthians 5:17 -6:2; Matthew 18:21-35;

Issue #1: God Forgives, but …

• Is God so good that he has already forgiven all humans for everything they have done or will do? If you say yes, then this means…. If you say no, then this means … Ephesians 2:8,9,13, Matthew 6:14, John 3:36

• Does this mean there will be really bad people in heaven? Do we really want to be there if the answer is yes? … Luke 23:34, Romans 1:18, Hebrews 12:14, Romans 3:9, 6:23

• Is there a difference between ‘forgiveness’ and ‘redemption’? Does forgiveness automatically establish relationship? … John 19:30

• What about God’s wrath? What about judgment?… Is The Shack ‘a little soft’ here? (p. 120 = God doesn’t need to punish people for their sins. Sin is its own punishment because it eats people up from the inside. It’s not my purpose to punish it; it’s my joy to cure it.) 1 John 2:2, Luke 17:2, John 3:16-18,36, Luke 16:19-31, Matthew 25:41,Luke 23:39-43

Issue #2: God wants me to forgive – everyone?!

• The Shack emphasizes that a major step in the ‘restoration project’ is forgiving others who have wronged us. Mack gets a glimpse of heaven and sees his abusive father there. When Mack forgives, a great burden is relieved. God says to Mack “Forgiving your dad yesterday was a significant part of your being able to know me as Father today.” Matthew 6:14, Matthew 18:21-35 … Even bigger is the step to forgive Missy’s murderer. God says “Mack, for you to forgive this man is for you to release him to me and allow me to redeem him.” – but is there some incongruity here with what was discussed earlier? (are there conditions/limitations to forgiveness & redemption?)

• Though stunningly rare, there are occasions, and some quite famous, when killers are forgiven. See Olson Finding God in The Shack p.92,93

• I think one of the best images in The Shack is this: forgiveness is not about forgetting but is about “letting go of another person’s throat.”Romans 12:17-19

Video: The 700 club interview with Karla Faye Tucker on death row in Texas





August 11 2010 Philippians 2:5-11; John 1:1-18; Hebrews 1:1-3

The images used in The Shack to portray God (Father, Son, Spirit) may shock & confuse some, especially those steeped in traditional Christian doctrine.

Variations on Orthodoxy – The Trinitarian Spectrum

3 different gods; visible in 3 different ways = Tritheism

God is one person; appears 3 different ways = modalism

Council of Nicaea 325
One divine substance,
Three distinct persons
Co-equal, co-eternal

The Shack is not a book of systematic theology or orthodox doctrine; it’s a story -like Jesus’ parables – meant to convey a message about God. Beware of literalism!

Only 2x in the Bible is there any definitive definition of God (“God is …”) John 4:24, 1 John 4:8,16

Olson = “God cannot be pinned down like a dead butterfly in a display box…unlike created things, God cannot be measured, dissected, analyzed, defined or controlled.” Papa in The Shack = “I am a verb.”

• KEY CONCEPT: Love requires relationship

Video: The 700 club interview the author of The Shack





August 18 2010 Rev. D. Johns
Questioning The Tough Stuff or, Finding God in the Shack - Part #3
Romans 8:28, 35-39; 2 Corinthians 6:3-10, 11:16-12:10;

1. Satan and the Problem of Evil, Gregory A. Boyd, IVP 2001
2. The Triumph of God over Evil: Theodicy for a World of Suffering, Wm. Hasker IVP 2008

Boyd p. 214ff …our world was created ‘risky’ … ‘blueprint worldview’ or ‘chaotic theory & the mystery of everything’ …”an exhaustive explanation of anything would ultimately require an exhaustive explanation of everything” … “the butterfly effect” …the 8 second interval” ..”the infinity of our ignorance” …

• So, it seems that THE SHACK & Boyd’s view on suffering come down to this: Among the few things we can know with certainty [or leap with faith] in this war zone is that God’s character is unequivocally loving, holy and good, for he is clearly revealed in Jesus. He revolts against evil & he calls us to join in this war.

Video:
Joni Erickson Tada video notes:
• What does she mean “my wheelchair has new meaning”?
• How can a ‘prison’ set one free?
• Agree/Disagree: “the weak & suffering become a powerful platform”

Philippians 3:7-10

But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ. What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ … I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings …

2 Cor. 12:7-10

To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

August 25 /10 Rev. D. Johns Romans 12:9-21; Hebrews 10:23-25; Romans 1:18-32
How do we resolve the age-long tension in the ongoing battle between good and evil? How am I supposed to respond? Where is the church in all of this?

Agree/Disagree
• The world is such a mess and God does not seem eager to fix it: I’m angry!
• “It’s ok to be frustrated & angry with God, just not permanently.” (Olsen)
• Evil & suffering are caused by sin, not God.
• Sin can be defined as “humanity’s declaration of independence.”
• Evil is the absence of good; God is good; thus evil is the absence of God. (Olsen p. 81)
• The key issue of faith is to affirm “God is good” through pain & suffering.
• The concept of Satan seems to be missing from The Shack.
• The Shack has a ‘fairy tale’ unrealistic ending: getting over such a tragedy so quickly.

Is this the “Rock of Atheism”? … How can God be all good & all powerful if evil & suffering continue? The Shack’s response =
• God limits himself by not controlling every detail of our lives, respecting free choice
• Love does not force its will
• God will redeem the world and bring good out of evil
• God will be close to the innocent sufferers with comfort, and restore them in heaven
Note Olsen’s comments about the broken world p.25
Video: Day of Discovery: Heaven, Joni

THEODICY is the branch of theology that defends God's goodness and justice in the face of the existence of evil & suffering
When Life Hurts by Brian Stiller, Harper Collins, 1999
Satan and the Problem of Evil by Gregory Boyd, Inter Varsity Press, 2001
The Triumph of God over Evil by William Hasker, Inter Varsity Press 2008